Tell Me Why? With guest Amy Rowlinson

Is yours big enough?

I’m talking about your why… of course! I don’t know what you were thinking about?

My guest today started off coaching people in building a property portfolio and soon realised her real gift and joy was in helping people find their WHY in life. In fact, she’s so good at it she even has a podcast all about people sharing their big reasons called ‘Focus on Why’. I’ve been fortunate enough to be a guest myself and it’s a fantastic show.

Amy Rowlinson is a Coach, Mentor, iTunes #1 Podcaster, Speaker, Mastermind Host and Property Investor. Through coaching and workshops, Amy works with businesses to Focus on WHY to create people-centred environments, by improving productivity and employee engagement by focusing on fulfilment, values and purpose.

Amy inspires and empowers entrepreneurial clients to discover the life they dream of by assisting them to make it their reality through their own action-taking. Helping them to focus on their WHY with clarity uniting their passion and purpose with a plan to create the life they
truly desire.

So, enjoy this chat with Amy Rowlinson and make sure to check out her ‘Focus on Why‘ podcast and find her on social media. Maybe you’ll develop your own why in the process.

Find out more about Amy:

  • Focus on WHY Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/focusonwhy
  • Amy Rowlinson Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/amy.rowlinson/
  • Focus on Why Facebook Page – https://www.facebook.com/focusonwhy/
  • Focus on Why Facebook Group – https://www.facebook.com/groups/focusonwhy/
  • Amy Rowlinson Facebook Page – https://www.facebook.com/RowlinsonAmy/
  • LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/amyrowlinson/
  • Twitter – https://twitter.com/AmyRowlinson
  • YouTube – https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyGG7uQ8bThIgnjS-XgiFmA

Amy’s book recommendations:
The Miracle Morning by Hal Elrod, The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen Covey, The Slight Edge by Jeff Olson, Atomic Habits by James Clear.

Join me next time when my guest is public speaking and TEDx trainer Peter Hopwood. Also coming soon, a corporate action hero and a highly experienced stand-up comedian. All coming soon on Speaking of Influence.

Our sister show Points of Change is just launching. If you want to hear some powerful conversations with coaches, mentors, experts and people who have transformed their lives, in incredible ways, come and check it out:

Launches Monday, March 1st 2021.

TRANSCRIPT

John Ball  
Welcome to speaking of influence the podcast for speakers and professionals or anyone who wants to present with impact hosted by presentation persuasion Coach John Ball. Remember to like and subscribe. If you’re thinking of starting a podcast, there couldn’t be an easier way to get started then getting started with bus route. They have all the tools and resources you need for starting a podcast and getting out to all the major podcasting networks. Check out the link in the show notes and get your podcast started today. Welcome to the show. Welcome back. If you are a repeat offender, you’re always welcome back and know that we are building up a bit more of a regular listenership on the show as well. So great to have you back with us. Today, I have a really wonderful guest with me, someone who I’ve been on her show, so and she is now very kindly returning the favour by coming online. Please welcome Amy Rowlinson. Hi, Amy. 

Amy Rowlinson  
Hi, thanks so much for having me on John. It’s a pleasure to be here. 

John Ball  
I’m really pleased that you agreed to swap. And to come and be on my show after having been on yours. I had a really nice experience being on your show. Your podcast is focused on why. And it’s been number one in the iTunes charts, right? 

Amy Rowlinson  
Not quite. So I got to number four. So I had a podcast before which was the property vault and the property bought got to number one, and this one is yet to get there. So but yes, I am essentially a number one podcaster but not with focus on why focus on what’s been going not yet not Yes, yes. It’s only been going since April 30 of 2020. So it’s still sort of in it’s sort of fairly early stages. But it’s been at the moment of recording, we’re in 69 countries, so I’ll take that as good growth. 

John Ball  
That’s fantastic. So he’s doing really well. And, you know, I speak to a lot of other podcasters and you know, it’s a real mix across the board live thing and still in just starting my second year of my show and things are going okay, I mean, according to everyone I’ve been speaking to I’m more or less on track for an average kind of show, and, and perhaps wasn’t as strategic as I could have been in launching. So I know if I do a podcast again, there’s a lot more strategy he learns so much. When you get into this, I think you were you were very strategic when you launched your launch your show, right? You knew what to do You knew how to how to get the publicity in there. And to get it on some charts and things I wish I’d known that your show is very much about focusing on why people do things. So, therefore, the title, is also very tied in with your professional life, as well. So you do coaching, what kind of coaching do you do? 

Amy Rowlinson  
Well, it started out as property coaching people were asking me how to get started in property and how to build a portfolio purely because they’d seen me do it. And coaching wasn’t necessarily something that I’d even thought about. So I started working with people, one to one and also had a mastermind, which had been running for free for women in property who were sort of fellow people that I met networks. And I pulled together a mastermind and that sort of evolved into one to one coaching. And then I realised actually, it wasn’t necessarily the property that people wanted to come to me Yes, there was an element of mentoring here and there. But a lot of it was personal development work that people needed help with, and more specifically, life purpose. So essentially, I’ve been life purpose coaching. And I love it. It’s it just combines that energy that you have for finding your living purpose. What is it you’re going to be leaving behind is a legacy and also living that legacy? Today, there’s no reason why we can’t do that, and helping people to discover their Why, why they’re here and what they should be doing in terms of what they want to be doing, not from a site or value sort of perspective, but just what they really, really drawn on what they love doing. So, yes, I kind of sort of fell into it. I don’t know, if all coaches fall into coaching, or whether or whether some people actually specifically Go for it. But this is my journey. And this is how I have been coaching over the last couple of years.

John Ball  
Well, I mean, I I didn’t fall into coaching, I very much decided to do it. But it is interesting that you were in one specific area like property coaching, mentoring is quite a niche area. One thing that I know that whatever niche you work in as a coach and hopefully, as a coach, anyone who is coaching or wants to be in coaching should be working in a niche, otherwise, it’s going to be a real struggle. But wherever you end up working in you, you often end up working on everything. And I think that’s primarily because life isn’t so compartmentalised that we can check everything into little boxes and it’s all separate to each other. Everything crosses into everything else and so if one part of life isn’t going very well it tends to pull other things down. But when you start working on improving a few particular parts of your life, it starts to, to lift everything up. And that’s been my general experience in coaching over the years do you find similar yourself? 

Amy Rowlinson  
Absolutely. And, and what happens is, once you start to get strong in one area, you realise that you can then move into another area and work on that as well. So, it all You are one person and all the different facets of your life all come together, people wear many hats, but often they sort of lose the focus or they lose a drive in a particular area. And that actually has quite a sort of negative impact on their other areas, even though they don’t realise it. So absolutely. You know, people come because they recognise that there’s an issue or they’ve got a sort of particular problem that they want to overcome. But what they don’t realise is often that is not the cause. There’s other elements that they so you unravel first as well. 

John Ball  
Yeah. What do you tend to find is the case then with people who don’t feel that they have a life purpose? Is it always the case that they feel a bit, sort of lost and, and meaningless in the world?

Amy Rowlinson  
It’s really interesting because I think a lot of people come to me and I tend to work with I call them midlife beginners. So people come to me at that sort of midlife stage where they realise that the career they’d been in or the particular business that they had, wasn’t really fulfilling. And it wasn’t sort of meeting their needs and their values. And yet, actually, when we get down to it, they didn’t know what their values were. And they thought they did. But actually, again, it comes back to that societal values, but they were sort of doing things under the premise of should and need to, as opposed to what they were wanting to themselves. So going through the values exercise with people is probably one of the most sort of transformational pieces that I do, because they realise that now that they’re working, or they’re creating something, it’s because it comes from their core. And these things have always been there, but they just haven’t spent the time on on working on it. And I’m sure you do the same with people. 

John Ball  
Similarly, although I don’t always work on people’s values, but most of my coaching work isn’t really so much ontological Coaching about that sort of purpose and being it’s more, I’d say, it’s more sort of specific business coaching on, I end up working with a lot of people on getting their businesses rolling and growing. And now my work primarily is on helping them with their public speaking and training skills. So, I can’t say that those things never come up. And they do sometimes with clients, but it’s not the prime focus of the work that I do. But certainly, any coach should be able to work on those things. And it’s great when you actually have people who specialise in that. What’s the first question that you would ask somebody to help uncover those values? 

Amy Rowlinson  
It’s quite a lot of layers to go there. But what I will do is I will work out really what it is that they want in life, who they want to be and why they want to do that. And a lot of people don’t know those answers that they’re actually it sounds like a simple question, you know, who or Who do you want to be? Who are you? And what is it you want, then a lot of people know what they don’t want. And so we have to sometimes work from there, and then sort of move away from that and work towards what they do want. And actually, again, it’s keep asking the sort of the questions until actually, the real answers start to come out. So the real answers from within. So to work with people’s values. It’s a case of, again, working out what it is that they’re doing right now to talking to them about what they’ve done going through a life map, which really helps to sort of pull out the themes and the sort of repetitions there and show people there have been patterns. And there are peaks and troughs. And, you know, we all have this journey, but just to show people that they have been living in accordance with their values, they just didn’t know what they were. So there’s lots of different elements. So it’s not less of one question. It’s sort of a bit of a discovery process. 

John Ball  
Yeah, you may find me muting my mic was just speaking, it’s just because it always seems to be when I’m recording, but the workmen next door start doing banging. And typically, that’s just how it goes. But it’s really fascinating. And one of the things that, I’ve spoken on this area of life, purpose and life meaning, and what are you what are your feelings about where that comes from for people?

Amy Rowlinson  
Well, it originates with our need to belong, and that whole sense of belonging and also to be valued. So we all have this need and this craving to be of value to others and have purpose. And this is a sort of inner drive that we have and so sometimes it doesn’t manifest. And that’s where we will feel that we’re not being valued for our work or we’re not finding life is fulfilling. And this is sort of like the newsflash, people don’t go to work, they go there to meet their needs and their values. And that’s unique to everybody. And it’s often that they are misaligned. And that’s where they will find this sort of difficulty or conflict in sort of showing up at work and then not having a great time, and not understanding why. And this is where I can help people sort of fall in love, again, with what they’re doing and why they’re doing it. And that’s, and that’s the transformational moment is that often it doesn’t have to be this sort of huge shift, it can just be identifying within their existing job, or their existing life, all the elements that actually do meet their, their values. And it’s a really, it’s a really great thing to be able to do, because you’re just empowering people to see their own strengths, their own beauty in what they’re capable of doing and how they can respond. And so I’ve heard this phrase, which is pointing superpowers, and it is essentially just pointing the superpowers that you have within you towards the things that you’re capable of. And we are also unique, we have unique maps of what we’ve done in the past, and how we sort of approach things. So for me, it’s just helping people to see who they are. 

John Ball  
And that’s really powerful. And one of the books has had a profound effect on me and on many, many people is Victor Frankel’s book Man’s Search for Meaning. And so I think it’s very true that often we are searching for, for meaning and purpose in our lives, it seems to be how our brains are wired, like, we often tend to not really take action or just feel like we’re going through the motions in life, if we don’t feel that there’s a purpose for it. And yeah, it seems that all the from most of the books that I read, that seem to have great value in that sort of area, the purpose stuff really comes from what you decide how you want to serve how you can, as you said about being feeling useful, appreciated, and serving the world in some way, using your talents, your superpowers in whatever way possible. And I feel that that’s, that’s something that personally, I feel, I feel like I’ve always aimed to move in that direction, I made myself a promise at the start of my startup my working life that I was only ever going to do work that I really enjoy doing. And that I felt fulfilled by and for the most part, that has been true. And other than some times when I’ve just had to take jobs because I needed some money coming in. For the most part, my career choices, my work and business choices have been making the choices of what has allowed me to feel like I was being able to do the most being up to being able to contribute the most from what I could do, where I could help people where my talents were. And so when you get to help people actually do that, and create that in their own minds. I think that’s a really powerful thing, and a wonderful gift to be able to bring that out in people as well, what have been some of the experiences or stories that have been perhaps most meaningful for you, from your work there.

Amy Rowlinson  
Well, let’s just go back to Frankel again, because it is such a great piece of work. And, yes, it’s a very traumatic way to illustrate the sort of There’s our search for meaning using the Holocaust as the sort of main focus, but what it does allow us to do is that it allows us to understand as a human, that it is our primary motivational force to find our meaning in life. And so when we do and when I’m working with people that are looking for that, and they understand that that’s what their driving force is when they find it. What else is there, you know, it’s just the most empowering thing. Because when we can sort of find that unique and specific significance in our life and have the understanding what our will to living is, and also the meaning behind what we do, that there’s no greater sort of reason for us to be doing this. So yes, I mean, it’s a brilliant book, and I’m waiting for someone to sort of do or give us a slightly different modern approach because I think that that book is going to stand out in time because of its link to the journey that people had to go. It was a very extreme point that he’s making in that in that particular or he’s sharing very extreme experiences. And this is something that I work with a lot of people is that you don’t need to go through huge trauma, to find purpose. And you know, when people talk about the sort of big trauma or little trauma, what I work with clients is to know that there are lots of elements in our life that all come together and it doesn’t have to be that you have had this sort of epiphany or you’ve had a significant event of death of a loved one or severe illness before you sort of recognise and this is where I obviously work with a lot of people who are in midlife. But I’m trying to encourage, especially through the podcast focus on why people just to challenge their thinking more, and from an earlier age. And so the podcast does appeal to people, all ages, because wherever they are in life, they’re listening to other people’s journeys. And yes, a lot of these people who come on the show have had some kinds of trauma that has led them to then find meaning in their life, but not everybody. And that’s why it’s so great to have all these different stories, all these different people from all different walks of life who have had different life trajectories, just so they can inspire and motivate and encourage others to think about why they’re doing what they’re doing. Does that answer your question? 

John Ball  
Yeah, I think it does. Because, to me, the whole sort of journey of finding meaning is ongoing. And but one thing that I see that people often just don’t do, and one of the biggest reasons why I think people aren’t so in touch with that, is because we can, we can live our whole lives without really contemplating it without really considering whether we’re on the track we want to be on, whether that’s like three we have, we feel we have duties and responsibilities, we have all things that can distract us. And sometimes we just don’t stop in question. And certainly now more than ever, there’s enough things in the day in our lives, to keep us distracted constantly, that we don’t really have to take that time out to just stop and think like, I know, I’ve talked about this on my show before a few times, but people seem to be scared of getting bored. And I think that boredom can be a really wonderful gift. Because once we sort of get past that sort of discomfort of being bored for a little while, we actually start to think and we’re alone with ourselves for a little while. And I think that’s a wonderful opportunity. And, and many of the great people, people who generally looked up to an esteemed will often talk about taking time out in their day to just think about things. And very often we don’t do that we don’t take that step back in our own lives to just take a look at what’s going on. And am I happy with this path? Is this the one I want to be on? Could life be different? Now ask yourself some good questions. And it seems that that’s what you’re giving people an opportunity to do. 

Amy Rowlinson  
Yeah, there’s a there’s a great book called A road less stupid by Keith J. Cunningham. And he talks about thinking time, and just taking yourself away from everything for 45 minutes a day with a pen and a paper and a very good question. And if you just do that on a regular basis, you’ll find that the quality of the question will obviously determines the quality of the answer. But it allows you to explore things and come from things in very different ways. Because you haven’t got the distractions, you’re allowing yourself to explore it in more depth. And this is about taking responsibility for your own life and becoming more self-aware about what you’re doing, because who you are and what you’re doing. And what you have is all within your control and, and what you want to have determines who you become and what you do. So this is a case of what is it you’re doing, and are you I call it living as opposed to existing, you talked about a lot of people sleepwalking and drifting through life. And this is all about taking control, and living again, with self-awareness and responsibility.

John Ball  
It’s very interesting to me that you mentioned that book because I had it recommended to me by a guest say maybe about three or four months ago and had recently added it to my AUDIO BOOK list because I tend to listen to audiobooks whenever possible. And I actually started listening to it this morning, on my way to work so it’s interesting that you bring that book up, but I’m only maybe five chapters in but I’m very much enjoying it and talking I’m thinking about those questions that we should ask ourselves and, and thinking yeah, I’ve already been thinking about that, that thinking time I tried to give myself that every day I have my my journaling time I have my gratitude time. And I think those things are so important. And I know that for you, you know habits and what do you call them rituals, if you like rituals, habits, things that we repeat daily are a really important part of what you often talk about. 

Amy Rowlinson  
Well, it was Aristotle who said we are what we repeatedly do. So yes, I journal and I’ve just started my year five of daily journaling. And that was triggered by reading the Miracle Morning by Hal Elrod, and so every day ever since then, for At this point in time, I’m now 1459 days in, and that again shows about the habit and what does journaling give me. I mean, it’s, it’s so invaluable. Yes, I sort of am grateful for things, and I document that. But what a journal shows me also is, it gives me an opportunity to write down my goals, and also how I’m feeling and my emotions on a daily basis. And what that does is there’s also a different way I journal which is I call it stringless. journaling. So I’m, I’m just journaling with, without thinking. So there are two different journals. One is a record of how that day has gone and what I’m grateful for and, and things that I’ve achieved or struggled with, and all of that. The other one is, as I wake up, I just write for three pages without thinking, and there’s no editing, there’s no censoring, it’s just purely writing. And what that does is it allows me to get rid of all of the things that are just going on in my mind that clutter. And as you wake up, it sort of documents that you’re writing it down, and it gives you the permission to sort of acknowledge that thought, and then you can move on with your day. And then a few days later, what I do is I go back through and highlight anything that comes out as negative, or I could perceive that as being a negative statement. And I read or write it down as it is, and then I rewrite it in positive as opposed to positive affirmation. And what that does, it starts to sort of retrain the thoughts because, as you know, we have between 50,070 1000 thoughts a day, majority of those are repeated as they are, they are similar to those thoughts I was having yesterday. And a lot of those are also negative. So we’re having very similar thoughts, and some of them are negative keep on coming over and over again. And what happens then is that these then starts you become you believe them, you start to sort of act on them. And you start to think that that’s true. So by reframing and rewriting these and just sort of give it acknowledging them, it allows me to have that brilliant repositioning, of saying, well, that no longer serves me. I don’t know why I don’t need to be saying that, and rewrite it and start thinking much more positive. And it totally changes. Because when you start changing yourself talk, everything changes for you. 

John Ball  
Yeah, absolutely. And the reality is, most of us are aware of the internal conversations that are going on. But also, I think all of us really have self-talk that isn’t 100% supportive all the time. And sometimes is very much the opposite of that can actually be quite destructive and pull us down and stop is going for opportunities or trying things or thinking that we can do something and really going for it. And holding ourselves back. You know, we all have these things. And we all have, I think we all have room for improvement. And so it sounds like this for you is something that gives you the opportunity to pull those things out and see what’s actually going on in your unconscious. I must admit I don’t do that kind of journaling, I do my gratitude journal, I do my productivity planning. Over the last few years before this year, I was doing a stoic journal that around holidays daily stoic and finding that very valuable and that they’re going to come back to doing that. But that’s a bit more of an evaluative journal in terms of thinking about what you want to achieve the day but then actually looking at your day, like how could I show up better tomorrow starts to at least pull out some of those things that I’m taking, take a look at. How did you show up today? Are you happy with that? Were there some interactions that you maybe weren’t, weren’t so happy with? Or there’s some things that the way you showed up that you could have been a bit more positive or a bit Kinder? Something that could have been improved upon? anything that we can do that starts to examine those things in our lives? and gives us an opportunity to say, Okay, well, I’m not sure I’m 100% happy with that, or I think I could do better, is there is an opportunity to improve and to grow on that. And then certainly, when we can start changing how we talk to ourselves. And sometimes we will catch ourselves doing this stuff, right? Something that catches our eye, are you stupid idiot or something far worse, when when we make a silly mistake or error or say something that we didn’t quite mean to say and there’s all this stuff that goes on goes on internally, what what do you do when you for yourself or for other people for changing that internal conversation? 

Amy Rowlinson  
It’s so powerful, and it’s so useful to know that you have the ability to change that self-talk and you don’t believe you don’t have to believe it, you know, is it this is the protection mechanism that you’re you are using to prevent yourself from downfall. And what it is a case of being able to do is just to allow yourself to reflect on those buildings. And do they still serve you? Or do you need to give yourself a new belief. And quite often some of these beliefs we haven’t reviewed since we were a child. And a lot of what we thought we are operating under, are the beliefs that we formed as a seven or eight year old. And that sounds insane. Because you’re thinking, How on earth can I still be operating from a belief that I formed when I barely knew what was going on in the world. But that’s what happened. And a lot of our stories, particularly around money, and I know, this is something that you work with a lot in your coaching, john, is that a lot of our money beliefs were formed when we were in this at this age of seven, or eight. And it’s a case of saying, okay, I actually know quite a lot more about the world right now. And I’m in a better position to have better beliefs and understanding. So thank you very much, you know, for helping me all these years, but actually, I’m going to take it from here. And this is now the new belief system. And that can be applied into so many different areas. And it’s, it’s a fantastic sort of opportunity for you to sort of start to think about, you know, what it is you really believe in, and again, it comes back to what are the societal values as opposed to your own belief systems and really giving yourself that refresh in all these different areas and start to challenge, you know, the thinking of what it is you really believe in, because quite often we are on this autopilot, and we don’t look at our beliefs, we don’t look at our values regularly. And just really think about them, we just take them as sort of assumed. And when you start to look at your particularly I’m going to use money story, cuz I know that you could have done this in a lot more detail. But when we sort of talk about money and how it serves us and what values we hold around it, and how that our operating models are formed around it is incredibly powerful, because it can allow us to see how we could be restricting ourselves and holding ourselves back and risk putting that ceiling on our potential. 

John Ball  
Yeah, absolutely. Sometimes we’ll point out to someone like private clients, that some of the beliefs around the sort of the times that these beliefs are mostly formed, and from things that maybe are going on at home, with your family, from your educational environment, from media from so many different sources that come back up either positive or negative messages in particular area, especially around money. And if you look to those times you’ll see where these things come from? And if you have the choice now, would you ask a child to tell you what your beliefs or your values and expectations around money and wealth should be? You probably wouldn’t? And unless it was a very empowered and educated child, I would hope so. But yeah, that’s what we tend to do within as you said, we tend to be stuck with these beliefs or decisions that we have from early on in life. And, and often, again, not challenging them and not thinking that actually could be different. Or maybe we could have taken away a more positive meaning from those experiences earlier in life. But perhaps, perhaps we were meant to take that positive meaning away, but we didn’t at that time. So maybe going back and re-examining what could have been the positive decision that you could have taken away from that is a good way to start healing the past and saying, Okay, well, that doesn’t change what happened. But it does perhaps change what you take away as the meaning of what happened, which I think is where things perhaps start to change at that deeper level. It’s always interesting working with these deeper rooted beliefs. So it’s one of the things I’ve been writing about this week as well for a course that I’m working on. Because it in terms of creating a new belief, you have to build new neural pathways, you have to work hard that some people think, Oh, well, I just, I know what it is now. And I know what the new belief is that I’ve done, I’ve done it, it’s like well no, actually, it takes a bit of time to strengthen up a new belief and a new neural pathway, especially to get it to a point where it’s stronger than the old belief that you didn’t want to have, which is what it has to become the more you use a new belief pattern and you were talking to yourself. And the less you use the old pattern, the weaker the old pattern gets, the stronger the new one gets. But that takes time. And that’s what I think that’s one of the biggest things that people don’t want to get with or have a fake expectation around, is thinking that this thing can be instant. And I think it actually takes time to build up. And to change those beliefs and time and experience and questioning and thinking time as you talked about.

Amy Rowlinson  
There are ways that you can expedite the process which is useful, which is to use NLP techniques, and where you can use moments or particular events in your life that have got a very strong representation for you. And you can move those new beliefs into a similar way. It’s really quite powerful how you can create these images for yourself is mental images. And give yourself a lot more strength behind that belief, which will help to, as I said, to expedite the process, and also reduce and eliminate it and delete the ones that are no longer serving you by sort of reducing them in size and taking defocusing them and taking them from colour to black and white, and moving these memories. Because we have an incredible amount of memories in our brain, everything is stored, whether we’re aware of that or not every single thing is stored in our brain, and we have got access to it if we allow ourselves to, into our unconscious, and a lot of what we store is stored in, it’s quite, it’s quite well organised to be fair. And so what will happen is things that we deem to be similar events will put into similar storage systems. And what that also means is sometimes when we’ve put something into our brain, and we’ve stored it slightly incorrectly because we’ve got that perspective that we had as a younger child that saw things and we have millions of pieces of information that come in at any one second. And yet, I think it’s only 134. I think that’s the number that we can actually remember at any one time. So what’s happening is we’re filtering out we’re deleting and we’re distorting all the things that we are exposed to at any one site at any one second through our different senses. And we can only actually sort of process and filter, we filter out the rest. So it’s really interesting. If you think about all the millions of pieces of information, what got deleted, what got left out. So as you said, when you’re going back to that particular event, we were perceiving it for that moment, and we’ve taken just a few elements. And so it’s looking at the bigger picture again, it’s understanding what else was happening at that particular event. It’s so fascinating. It really is. 

John Ball  
Yeah, yeah, it really is. It really is. It is one of my favourite books I don’t know if you’ve read it is called The Luck Factor is it’s gonna kind of struggle with the guy’s name now.

Amy Rowlinson  
I have got my Here we go. I’ve got my list of, I know I love it. Super organised if anybody wants my spreadsheet of books I read, but the luck factor is I haven’t done it by I’ve done it by surname so well, I’ll find it as you carry on talking about it and we can reference in a moment. 

John Ball  
Okay. One of the reasons why I particularly love that book is because it talks about what really is luck and what is good luck. What bad luck, either not mysterious forces, they’re not magical kind of things. It really does come from your expectations, your beliefs about yourself. And I’m gonna say it’s Richard Wiseman. I think it’s Richard Wiseman, but something is something man, isn’t it? 

Amy Rowlinson  
Yeah. Richard Wiseman. Well done. Hey.

John Ball  
So so in the book, Richard Wiseman talks about that, when they were actually scientifically investigating luck, they were able to dismiss the sort of supernatural explanations pretty early on, and start looking at actual scientific reasons why people were lucky or unlucky. And I even remember some of the experiments that he talks about being conducted on the TV and what’s been interesting from reading that is that lucky people just tend to act more in accordance with their belief that they’re lucky and more likely to take those chances or to strike up that conversation, and to go for things that they might not otherwise go for. Whereas unlucky people are less likely to notice those things. And, and Derren Brown did a really great experiment on one of his shows, he went to Todmorden, near Manchester, and did this experiment about whether people were lucky or unlucky. And I think his show, who knows the magic of editing and everything, but he showed did a pretty good job of demonstrating that lucky people do, the people who believe they’re lucky tend to be luckier. And people who believe that unlucky tend to have that experience as well. And they just don’t, unlucky people tend to just not notice where there’s opportunity. Because as you say, all this information coming through, they’re not sorting for that they’re not looking for it, they don’t have an expectation that there may be opportunity even when people might be dropping money right in front of them on the path and might find 50 pounds on the floor and just walk straight by it because you don’t expect anything good to happen to you. In fact, you’re expecting the opposite. It’s kind of more your brains looking out for threats or for what might go wrong. And so that was really powerful for me after reading it. I think it’s one of the very first of all personal development books I ever really read. And, and just recognising that we really do create our luck or our lack of it by our beliefs by the values that create those beliefs by our experiences that create those beliefs about what the world is like and what our life is like and that all this time we are creating the experience of our reality.

Amy Rowlinson  
So every book I read, I do a bit of a mind map. And I know your audience won’t be able to see this, but they get I can describe it. So for the luck factor, which I read back in, sort of 2017, so the summer of 2017, this is in my journal. So this is what I do in my journal is I not only just read books or record, my daily events, but I write down the keynotes from each of the key books that I read. And the luck factor has four key principles in it. And you’ve highlighted them and the first one is to maximise your chance opportunities, lucky people build and maintain strong network of luck. And they listen to their lucky hunches, which is their gut feelings and that we know that there’s a lot to be said about the gut and trusting the gut, in terms of the decisions that we’re making. And there is there’s a fantastic I had an interview recently with Adrian Hales, who talks about the vagus nerve and the gut making those big decisions in your life and how that works. And expecting good fortune is another one of his principles, Richard Wiseman’s principles, which is that lucky people expect the future to be hopeful and, and they understand that the future is going to help them fulfil their dreams and their ambitions. And the final principle is all about turning your bad luck into good luck, people are able to transform their bad luck into good fortune. So you’re absolutely right. You know, it’s again, it comes down to mindset. And this is something that we’ve both focused on for sort of many years now and really enjoyed the transformation that we see in ourselves, but also, in others. 

John Ball  
I’m mostly just in admiration of how super organised and planned out you are about all of this. I know that like like myself, you’re a very, very big lifelong learner, you believe in the power of self-development and education. I wish I was anything close to as organised and thorough as you are on this sort of area, I tend to rely on memory a lot more than perhaps I should, but I definitely have a lot of admiration that you just need to pull the habit, okay, here it is, here’s my…

Amy Rowlinson  
Yeah, I say the thing is, but I am a very visual person. And so when I’m reading things, even if I’m listening to them on an audiobook, if I have, I probably have to then buy that book at another time in the physical version, so that I can then write out some notes again, because quite often, when you’re missing typical audio, you’re driving or you’re walking, and you’re doing something else. So it’s not always the case, you can do that. So for me when I’m listening to a book, and that was on holiday, so I had the luxury of being able to sort of write down the keynotes as and when I was listening to them, but I’m heavily auditory digital, which means that I like processes and having those models because it really helps me to process from the visual perspective as well. So being aware of the way that you receive information, and what your primary representation system is, is really, really useful to note, though, that I communicate a lot through my language is using visual language. So I will often say to someone, I see what you’re saying, and, you know, I’ve got a really good picture of that. So they’re very visual descriptions. And this is, again, where NLP comes into work with coaching and really positive with languages, when you are building rapport with your clients, and anybody this could be with family or friends, listen to the language that they’re using, and and then start to feed it back again. So somebody might be in a meeting and say, Well, I hear what you’re saying, but you know, I just can’t quite understand what it is you’re describing here. Or they might say, well, I’ve got a sense of that, but can you give me a better idea so I can get a handle on it and you can hear the difference in language? And with that, you can then take your report and your relationships to the next level. And here let’s go with another book. Stephen Covey. The Seven Habits of effective people and one of the biggest principles that he has is first seeking to understand then be understood. And this is probably for me the best

John Ball  
Yeah, I love the book and I love the principles in that as well. And grab yourself some water. For me it’s a very, very powerful thing to be able to just communicate well with people, one of the things I find interesting with rapport is we tend to do, we tend to do it anyway, like the rapport skills have been developed from observing rapport and how it works with people. And some of us find it easier to generate rapport with others than others do. And some of us find that rapport with just certain people is very easy, but with other people, it can be very difficult. So the rapport skills are really good to know for those times where you don’t naturally have it, where you can actually, you think, well, I don’t have reported this person, I think you should first ask yourself, do I want rapport with this person. And if I do, maybe I can actually help things along, I can grease the wheels a little bit by, you know, tuning into their language, tuning into the procedure, how they speak, the speed they speak, and the resonance, and there are so many different elements that you can actually copy into which, when you feel that you have that connection with someone, naturally, you automatically do it. You know, I know that particularly when I’m in the UK, which isn’t too often these days, or if I’m mixing with English people are English, Natural English speaking people, I tend to pick up the accents of the people who I speak to. I’m not the only person who does that I know. But certainly, as well, because that my origins are from the north of England. So if I go anywhere near someone who has been someone who’s from there and has a strong accent, you can guarantee that you’ll hear it, you’ll hear it in my accent, and it will come out. And I think we probably all have those experiences. Sometimes we’re having a conversation with somebody where you actually know pretty much what they’re going to say next as well. I think that’s a very high level of, of rapport that can sometimes happen. So really know when it’s going well, I don’t recommend stopping and questioning it too much. But when it’s not there, that’s the time to sort of take a look at Yeah, absolutely. How are they speaking? How could I actually make things a bit smoother here, if you want to with that person? 

Amy Rowlinson  
Well, you know, you’re, you’re talking my language here, John, because I actually studied linguistics at university. And it’s been a long time since I sort of thought about what you’re saying and, and remembering the sort of sociolinguistics elements of the dialectology was fascinating for me, and, and how language, learn how children learn language, how we don’t second languages, my dissertation was on how sort of foreign language learners perceive English vowels. Now, it sounds a bit niche. And that’s what happens with a dissertation, it goes right in, but what it allows me to do was just really understand how we learn language and how other people hear what we’re saying. And there’s so many different levels that you can take this is when you’re saying something, you think you’re being heard, and you think you’re being understood, but not always the case. So for that this particular dissertation I did, I learned that actually, we have the ability to speak any language from the early ages, or we have the physiologic physiology to be able to do so I had to learn the International Phonetic Alphabet, which has got every single sound that every single language in the world uses. And actually, by the age of eight, we filter out the ability to produce that language. So even though we may learn languages, as a sort of growing up as a child through to adulthood, and we may learn languages, we may never actually sound fluent. So we will be able to do it. But we won’t sound that that sort of perfect sort of natural language. So this is a difference between people being able to discern the difference between a ship and a sheep, that difference in the sort of the vowel sound to them, they can’t hear that some different language learners that because they don’t have 12 vowel sounds or 20 vowel sounds in their language, they may only have sort of five or eight. So this is a little bit of a tangent, but linking into where we are sort of communicating is understanding other people and really trying to understand what it is they’re saying. And it comes down to listening. 

John Ball  
It is interesting, my husband is Spanish and from Valencia, where I live, and sometimes I can’t tell, as certain words that he’s trying to say one muck springs to mind is that I can’t tell the difference between when he says, verb or burp, because they sound exactly the same to me when he says them, whereas he’s very clearly thinking he’s saying the words distinctly differently to my ears. They just sound the same. And yeah, it’s fascinating, but you know, same thing in Spanish. You know, I know that I don’t think I’m the easiest person although I think I have a very clear accent in English. When I’m speaking Spanish. People really struggle to understand me and It’s interesting takes a while to tune in to somebody who’s speaking your language with a heavy accent. It’s a, it’s a fascinating, fascinating area. And, and certainly may be one of the things that perhaps makes it a little bit harder sometimes to create rapport in those situations too because there’s a bit more of a barrier to overcome in order in order to do that. So you might have to focus on some of the other areas like physicality matching mirroring, and, and maybe you can actually focus more on that. Things like the tone, tone of voice, the pitch, the speed and things like that, to create the rapport so long as you can actually communicate in the same language. But yeah, it’s a fascinating area is interesting to know that you studied that and that you’ve gone on, to have a new and different understanding of it as well. I do want to get on to talking about podcasting because we’re both podcasters. And it’s a wonderful thing. And it’s something that I think I first started a podcast, maybe about, I’m trying to think now, certainly over 10 years ago, maybe more than that it might have been 12-13 years ago, and I didn’t do it, I like to keep saying I was probably one of the first people who ever had pod fade is, you know, just sort of dropped out of it after about maybe about five or six episodes, which is kind of normal now, like, although there are millions of podcasts Now, most of them don’t get don’t go that far. And they often don’t even get to a full series. But for those that do, I think there’s a lot of value there. And there are podcasts on nearly everything. Now and this is your second one what has podcasting meant for you?

Amy Rowlinson  
So you say the millions of podcasts are actually as of today 1,871,195 podcasts? Obviously, there are a lot of episodes to link to those. But in terms of how that actually factors that there are overall, I think it’s 800 know how many, sorry, 37 million YouTube channels. So let’s just think about that two different sorts of mediums. Why podcasts not as well, there are as many as YouTube channels. And it’s a growing medium, and it’s still in its nascence. So I really do believe it’s going to explode. And for me, YouTube, lots of people think, Oh, you know, we need to do a video. But actually, how much time do people have nowadays to consume that type of material, we actually have a lot more time to do things on the run. And so that’s why I believe that podcasting is going to sort of really come to the fore. So again, it comes back to that how you consume information, whether you’re visual where you have a preference for that, and some people aren’t auditory, which is what our podcast primarily is. But what I believe a podcast allows you to do is to take on the auditory information. And then you can play your own movie, you can play your own film, and imagine your own life by listening to what you’re hearing as well. And that’s where I think is actually sort of a really powerful concept with podcasting, because is taking a particular medium and allowing it into your own world is very intimate. This is a one to one relationship with a listener, I’m speaking to you and you directly and nobody else is in this relationship. And that’s what I love about podcasting is that it is very much just me and the listener. 

John Ball  
I love that there are so many different formats in podcasting. And, and for me in terms of delivering podcasting, this is probably my favourite being able to have a conversation with somebody and we’re not even in the same country and we can sit down and have a conversation. I love that as well. But, but I love being able to just sit down have a chat and, and other people get to listen in on that because I know when I listen to podcasts, I sometimes feel like to me, I want a podcast to be like, you go out and you’re in a bar and you hear someone’s conversation on the next table. And it’s really interesting. And so like you stop what you’re talking about, just want to listen to this. That’s a bit weird. It’s like you get invited into what otherwise would be maybe a private conversation. You can do other things, or I do tend to do other things while I’m listening to podcasts as well. So you’re not stuck in front of a screen which I think is a really good point that you mentioned. Although I do not I do put the stuff out on video as well with the podcast but primarily it’s an audio channel. But I love that you know people listen to podcasts on their commutes in the car, going for a walk in the gym. That is a very versatile format that and doesn’t use up too much memory gets on devices if you want to download stuff, which probably helps as well. But, but also, you know, listen to some fiction on there from time to time. And I get to pick the conversations that I want to tune in on like there are some very high or very popular podcasts like Tim Ferriss, Joe Rogan, I probably listen to Tim Ferriss more than Joe Rogan but, but I like to listen to bits and pieces of other podcasts. I recently listened to one of your shows with Patricia Fripp, which is what I really enjoyed. It was a really good episode. And she’s, she’s an interesting lady. And there’s a there’s a lot to learn from her too. It’s a great conversation. That’s the kind of stuff that I love with podcasting and not that it really does anything other than I get to have lots of great conversations. And the network that has come the networking that has come from podcasting, it’s been one of the major one of the best things I’ve ever done anything.

Amy Rowlinson  
Absolutely and you struck a nail on the head because you can be entertaining, you can be informative, you can be educational, you can be intimate, you can have so many different formats, you can either have this one to one with someone or you can have group conversations, you can have sort of a mind dump, see, and you can repurpose all different types of material. It can be five-minute podcast, it can be a five hour some of Joe Rogan’s ones are ridiculously long. Yeah, but that’s his format. And he just worked through in that space. And this is the thing is that you can be as creative as you want. In a podcast, you can own your own show, you can have different elements, you can push it out at different times of the day. And there’s so much flexibility. And that’s what I love also about this particular format. But again, I think it comes down to people, what you’re allowing yourself to do, particularly on my show focus on why is your peering into the window of a world that’s normally sort of hidden, and you are invited in to be a party of that conversation like you say, you know, we’ve all been on that in that cafe, sort of like a awaking to that conversation of that table next to us. And suddenly you realise that you are completely engrossed in their conversation. And that’s what it’s like about the podcast is you feel like your party, and you’re allowed in, it’s a privilege that you’ve been invited to listen to this conversation that other people are having. And you’re like, Oh my gosh, this is fantastic. You know, I didn’t know that that was the case. And, and it is that’s what it is. As a lifelong learner. I love listening to podcasts. I couldn’t even I hadn’t listened to one before I launched my own show. How bad is that? And now I listen to so many other podcasts because I just want to consume more and more and learn more and more. And as a lifelong learner that sort of sits well with me. 

John Ball  
Yeah, I love them and, and the more I can get, the better I actually have the one thing that I plan to have with audiobooks because I listened to them a lot as well, I now have a new podcast as well, like most of us have a stack of books that we’ve bought that we haven’t got around to reading yet. And that stack often if you like learning if you like books, you just keep buying whether you justify if I were to do it and the stack grows bigger and stuff you haven’t read yet. And I’ve ended up with now the same thing with my audiobooks, even though I go through loads of podcasts as well as all these stacked up episodes, I will get around to listening to them at some point. But you know, realistically, you can only do so much there is so much time but that is one of them that a as a listener that is one of the aspects I love the most is that it’s a very flexible format that you can do other things. whilst you’re listening to a show. And you don’t have to listen, even if you have a small several hour podcast, you don’t have to listen to the whole thing in one go. You can break it down the same as you would any audio product and come back and pick it up where you left off, which I particularly love as well. From the side of being a podcaster, What do you see as being the benefits of it?

Amy Rowlinson  
Well, you picked up on it before and you mentioned the network. And this is where I’d like to give you a huge thank you because you recommended or you spoke of somebody that you had on your show called Li Hayes. And I reached out to Lee we recorded an episode which was just before my 100. So it’s my 99th episode with Li. And after that, and listening back to it, she has reached out to me and she’s introduced me to probably about six people now who have come on the show, and have also about to come on the show. And again, I would never have met these people or as quickly as I have made have taken several sort of years to get to the space of where I am now interviewing this type of sort of personal mic podcast. And because the network just gets richer and richer and expands and when people like what you do and they understand what the mission is behind that the show and what the purpose is and you know it helps I have a very strong purpose with focus on why that is very clear and the outcome is It’s easily understood by everybody who comes on the show. So everybody wants to come on the show. They want to share their purpose because it’s the core of what they’re doing and why they’re doing it. So nobody says no for coming on, put focus on why I’ve had a few people who have come on, recorded and then come back to me several months later. And I thank goodness, you haven’t released that yet. Because actually, I’m now doing this, because coming on your show made me realise that what I was doing was not congruent to what I wanted to be doing, that I’ve re-recorded three different episodes with people because they have changed their life purpose having been on the show, and mine is amazing. And Episode 100 was called the ripple effect. And it’s all about the things that have happened since launching this show. And I had guests come on from all over the world who audience members. And it also been various guests as well. So they were audience members who had listened to the show, done something as a result of that. And then they wanted to come on and share with me what they’ve done. So for me, this show started out as being a personal so I know what I can do to help the world at a difficult time. It’s right beginning of lockdown. In April, the first I woke up with an idea, the 30th of April, I launched the show. And within sort of seven months, I had the 100th episode, which was on the 19th of October. And what that was less than those six months. And what that allowed me to do was just show people what is possible, when you have a very clear focus, you’re very clear why what your purpose is. And even if you don’t have a clear idea of how big it’s going to get or what’s going to happen, just putting it in motion and allowing it to grow and evolve. That’s what this show is done. 

John Ball  
Yeah, incredible. And yeah, blows me away. I love hearing stories like that. And one of the things from for me personally, with podcasting, I get what you’re saying about sometimes getting connected to people who you’d never imagine being able to get to have a conversation with. That, to me has been a wonderful thing. But in terms of the shows I put out, I think it is often more to do with what we talk about than who I talk to, that people seem to care more about. Certainly, my listener statistics will indicate that that information, or at least that’s very much the case, I think there may be some shows that people might be more inclined to attuning to with certain guests. But I do think for a lot of the time it is the conversations that people want to listen to. And, and some of my most downloaded episodes are ones where people that probably most people would never have heard of. And yet some of the most wonderful conversations so that the network stuff is amazing. But I also love that you get to hear not just from people that you might already know about, but from people who you may never have heard of, you have something really valuable to say or something very powerful to share as well. So you hopefully get a whole spectrum a wider spectrum than you might otherwise get from more mainstream media. Because mainstream media stuff is meant even with audio media, tend to only put out stuff that is with known people, people who have already become established either as authors, speakers, whatever. Whereas podcasting actually allows people who may be just starting out, but have something powerful and interesting to say, to have to have a platform and to get out to those audiences. That to me is one of the most wonderful things about it. It’s a very, I guess because it’s not generally a for-profit industry that most podcasters aren’t in it for the money, it would be a bad idea generally to, to just be in podcasting for the money, I think. But maybe it’s because of that because it is very much about giving and service and you’re inviting people not to make money off them. But to serve an audience. I think that’s to me, what makes it really a powerful platform.

Amy Rowlinson  
It really is. The podcast platform is a platform where your listeners are very loyal. And they will have probably have six or seven shows that they go to regularly. And so if you’re pushing out content where people are enjoying it, and they’re consuming it, and they know consistently that it’s going to be there, and they’ve got their walk on a Wednesday morning and they know your voice is going to be in their mind. That’s what they’re looking for. They’re looking for that consistency. And it is about showing up and getting out there. And you can do this from your own home. So at the beginning of May this year, we tipped over the 1 million podcast mark, we’re now almost doubled that by the end of this year. That’s how much it’s grown this year, because of the need and demand for people wanting to have that resource of consistency and interest. And what you’re providing in your podcast, John, is you’re providing you know that that resource for someone who’s going to come to you knowing that they like know, like and trust what the content you’ve shared before. And as you say, sometimes the bigger guests aren’t the ones that they’re going to relate to, as much as they’re going to relate to the sort of the other people who have just shared a journey or story or learning or shown a vulnerability, you know, they’ve gone through an experience, and they’ve shared that with, that’s where people go, oh, my goodness, I so me, or I totally understand that that’s, that’s just been so insightful. And again, that’s what I’m looking for. In my show. It’s not necessarily about having big names at all. It’s about having relatable, inspiring and uplifting conversations that people can really sort of take on board and use as a motivational piece to take action to take responsibility and take control of their own lives. 

John Ball  
Yeah, from a personal growth sort of perspective, I would say that I feel that I’ve grown a lot as a podcast host. I mean, maybe you have a similar feeling as well, that I know, I’m a bit braver about approaching people, I’ll start a conversation with somebody who I think would be a great guest. But based on that, because I guess it’s that thing of having that purpose that’s bigger than just me, it’s not about me, it’s about the show. It’s about serving the audience. And so it makes me a bit braver, and I will go for it. I will, I don’t feel scared to ask someone. And I have had a few rejections from bigger names, generally, because they are too busy. Perhaps more mainstream or higher, higher media. People who are higher up in the pecking order and living but often people who are generally wouldn’t genuinely would not have expected to say yes do and, and often I get people on the show who either have come through somebody like yourself who’s connected with as a podcaster, or through the podcasting networks, he again, just super interesting people that not everyone knows who they are, but that they have something valuable to say. And those are the conversations that I always want to be having is that, to me is about really adding something the show should always be adding value. And I feel on this journey, I felt like there were a few points where I started to perhaps lose sight of the purpose of the podcast and had to get myself back on track. And as soon as I did, as soon as I realised my values back to that, about the show and why I was doing it and what it was for and who it was for things got back on track about serving the audience in the way that it should be. And those have been really powerful life lessons for me along the way. And of course, networking is wonderful, too.

Amy Rowlinson  
So for me, I totally agree. It’s all about the contribution piece about what I could bring to the table. I was already a podcaster before and I had a very specific property podcast, which was sharing learnings and educational tips around property. And then when that business sort of closed at the beginning of lockdown, I wanted to go into a broader space, I knew that with the coaching, it was going to be more of a mindset based. And that’s when I sort of had a week to decide. And I gave myself a week decide because I was closing out the episode of my previous podcasts. And I wanted to have something that I knew I could say this is where you’re going to come to because again, it’s that loyalty let me take my audience with them. It was with me rather. And with that, I looked at what it is I was trying to achieve and who I was going to be serving who would my audience be? And I knew that there was something quite big here. And yes, I had that sort of self-doubt of Who am I to be that person, you know? Well, I just thought you know, what doesn’t matter if one person listens and takes action, mission accomplished, just do it just get out there? Well, you know, that one person reached out to me and made me cry. Because that I literally after that first show, I had a message I had actually had several 100 messages over the course of the next few weeks. But that first message that I got was, I heard you listened to your episode. And I just want to let you know that I am that one person that’s taken action. And I was like that this is everything. This is exactly why we went through that process of pulling that particular podcast together. And those messages keep coming. And they keep coming. They keep coming and it’s just so inspiring to know that you know, little old me in my house in you know, in the middle of lockdown had gave value to other people. And you know, this is a thing that when you don’t value yourself, you know, you can’t go anywhere you can’t grow. And so I had to value what I had to give and take it from there. And with the different guests that come on the show and they’re so different. They’ve got such wonderful stories. Often when you listen to my shows where I’ve got the interview with a guest, I may actually only ask two or three questions, sometimes literally just three questions. Sometimes there’s a bit more sort of interaction, we’ve had quite a bit sort of to fro in this conversation. But with some of my guests, they’ve just been able to share almost a monologue, because they’re talking about their purpose and their why and it becomes so personal. And there may be sort of some moments where I’m just thinking in that space, what is it the audience would like me to ask right now. And that’s where I go. And so I then have separate reflection and observations episodes after that, where I talk through the things that have been raised in that particular episode where there may not have been explored. And that gives me a voice separate to the interview. So I really allow my guests to share who they are, what they’re doing, and why they’re doing that, in that particular space. Well, I love that I’m gonna have to ever think about doing something similar, like reflecting back on the shows, I really like that idea. And then sharing those thoughts, with the audience as well. And that might even be interesting. It might even be interesting to the to the guests as well, what kind of thoughts and feelings you had afterwards? Actually, that’s really interesting. You said that, because I, my reflections episode came out yesterday. And it always reflects on the sort of previous five or six episodes for the past guests. And I had one particular guest reach out to me, so I had no idea that that’s how it came across or, and that’s, that’s really given me a lot to reflect on myself. So thank you, it was really valuable. And this is really interesting is that often when you hear yourself beings, it’s not critiqued, it’s just hearing what someone has taken away from that particular session. And I know that if I listened back to those episodes, again, I would have different takeaway. So is that each of these episodes are like the gift that keeps on giving us so much content in there. And it’s really lovely to be able to sit back from the audience perspective, and just listen to it in a different frame. So I will put those episodes into my go for a nice long week, a walk and just talk about and just sort of go through, then write down some messages on my phone as I’m doing that. And then I come back, and I sort of write it all out and record it. 

John Ball  
That’s wonderful. I love that you’re giving me some food for thought. And I definitely appreciate that as well. I would spend all my days podcasting if I could. But I also love the other things that I do as well. But wonderful, and certainly some very nice insights. So thank you, I might have to do a reflection on our chat today,as well. So we’ve covered a lot today. And I think it’s been a really valuable conversation. And one of the things I always like to get to ask my guests is, depending on the kind of conversation but this is the kind of the right kind of conversation for this is about the book recommendations, like if I came to you, or someone who’s going to say, Hey, you know, what, what would be a great book, what should I read and if you’re going to recommend somebody a book or a couple of books is to say, I’ve been thinking about some of the stuff before I listened to your episode, what should I read following on from that, or what’s just been a really great transformative book for you that you would recommend. And I know that you keep a really good record of the books that you read, you already showed us some of that, what would be the book or books that you would most recommend.

Amy Rowlinson  
So it really does depend on what it is you need some help with, or some inspiration with or some insights we have. So it for different people that would vary. And it really is quite a bespoke conversation to have. And what I do is, I do keep a record of all the books that I’ve read, but I also keep a record of who recommended me that book and sort of around that conversation that we were having at that time, because that does make an impact of why I then sort of read that book and what value I get out of it. Because for me, I may recommend a book. But that was very personal for me at that time because it gave me the answers to something that I was looking for. So it’s a great question, but I don’t necessarily have the perfect answer for it. So if someone was looking to improve their communication skills, I might recommend some books sort of around sort of TED talks or stoicism or sort of even understanding more about NLP. And so yeah, it’s a difficult conversation. I think in terms of general life lessons, for me, one of the great books was it was Hal Elrod’s The Miracle Morning and it was purely because he talks about lifesavers now, I’m not going to spoil you. Have you read the book? 

John Ball  
Oh, yes, several times. 

Amy Rowlinson  
Okay, great. So, but I’m not going to spoil the book for anybody who hasn’t, in terms of why he wrote the book because that is a story in itself as is Atomic Habits by James Clear. So those two books were for me quite sort of emotional books because of the way that they were set up from the start. And then I took what they then had to say, in a very different perspective. And from someone who is looking for purpose and looking to help other people with their purpose, they have been quite useful tools. And as has The Slight Edge by Jeff Olson and The Compound Effect by Darren Hardy. And we talked about earlier the Seven Habits of effective people by Stephen Covey. There’s other books, I’m just looking down at my list to see if there’s anything I forgotten. I do have Stars by my favourites, the E myth revisited by Michael Gerber. And here we go, Mike Michalowicz’ Profit First and Fix This Now. There we go. Good. And if you get up, I’m going to recommend a NLP book. I’m going to recommend the ultimate introduction to NLP which is written by Richard Bandler, and a couple of others. And the reason I recommend that is because the type of style that this book is written in is as though you are attending a seminar. So you feel as though you are living, breathing, and in-person in a particular event. And I think that’s a really clever way to write a book. Because it’s using all of your senses. It makes you feel as though you’re part of that process and part of that book. And it’s just, it’s a really clever concept. And I like that. So yeah, there’s a few books to go with. 

John Ball  
Yeah, definitely. There’s been some great recommendations, fiction or nonfiction, what’s been your favourite book this year? 

Amy Rowlinson  
Okay, so I love Mythos by Stephen Fry, and we just ordered Troy and we listened to Heroes on the way down to we managed to get out to France this summer. And that was great. So I listened to that. And I’ve just downloaded Try, so I’m going to say that but I’ve also downloaded Green Lights by Matthew McConaughey.

John Ball  
Excellent, some great book choices. I love it. So as we start to wrap things up for our conversation today, what are the best ways for people to come and find out more about you, your podcast, your coaching?

Amy Rowlinson  
Well, I hang around on all social media platforms. So I’m there on LinkedIn, on on on Facebook, and on Instagram and Twitter. But I have a website, which is Amyrowlinson.com So, come and find me there. 

John Ball  
You’ll find all of those links in the show notes, that’s for sure, as well as the book recommendations. And so let’s bring things to a close then, I ask my guests to prepare some closing thoughts, what would be your final thoughts that you would like to leave people with?

Amy Rowlinson  
Work on your values, really, really work on your values, because if you understand your values, you will be valued for your work. And that way you will feel fulfilled, and you will live a life that is worth living.

John Ball  
Wonderful, great thoughts to close on. I’ve got a lot of value from this episode. I hope anyone watching or listening does as well I’m sure it would love to hear back. leave us a review Leave us your reflections. And make sure you check out Amy’s show and Focus on Why and her website as well. It’s a great show not saying that just because I’ve been on it, I’ve listened to other episodes as well. And it really is a very, very powerful show. And I really love it. It’s an inspiration to me as a podcaster as well. So thank you. And thank you for coming and being my guest today. It’s been wonderful. 

Amy Rowlinson  
Well, thank you for having me. It’s been great to visit Spain for the afternoon.

John Ball  
At least virtually right.

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