How to be a high performer under pressure with guest Tina Greenbaum

Do you want to be a top performer in business?
How do you manage stress in high-pressure environments?
If you’re interested to know who top c-suite executives and performers go to when they want to turn up their performance without turning up their stress levels, you’re in for a treat.

My guest for this episode is Tina Greenbaum, founder of Mastery Under Pressure and author of the book Mastery Under Pressure: How you can achieve an unstoppable mindset. Tina shares with us some of her journey and her experience that led her to coaching CEO’s and top executives to be able to achieve at higher levels whilst gaining greater inner peace and clarity too.

I got to ask Tina about some of her experience and growth as a public speaker too and how that has fitted in with her business growth. You can find Tina’s website listed above and she’s also active on Linked In if you’d like to find out more about her.

Tina’s Book recommendation is ‘The Road Less Stupid’ by Keith Cunningham

Transcript

John Ball
Welcome to speaking of influence with John Ball from present influence.com. Each week we talk about presentation skills and public speaking and the tools of influence and persuasion with experts and incredible guests. Stay tuned and enjoy the show. Speaking of influence is uploaded and distributed to all major podcast networks through buzzsprout. Buzzsprout is the simplest way to get your podcast started with a ton of great resources for new podcasters you could start your podcast today follow the link in the show notes.

Welcome back to the speaking of influence podcast I’m really excited to bring another amazing guest, an amazing lady who works in the area of executive coaching. She is the founder of her mastery under pressure programme with a clinical background which really helps in the area of coaching and she is coaching People in the high-pressure high-stress environments of business leadership. Please welcome to the show, Tina Greenbaum.

Tina Greenbaum
Thank you. Thanks so much for having me.

John Ball
I’m really pleased that you came on the show and that you agreed to appear as a guest. Because when we had our chat a little while ago about discussing what we’ve talked about in an episode, not only were you delightful, but you clearly know your stuff as well, you’re very experienced, and you have an amazing background for what you do. Perhaps you can share some of that for the audience.

Tina Greenbaum
Sure. So I started my career as a teacher in special education and quickly moved over to the field of psychotherapy because I really like the idea of getting into the heads of people and kids and families. And so I went back to school and I got my master’s in social work, and I started out working with women with eating disorders. They were my first clients, and nobody had ever treated eating disorders before. This was 30 some years ago and it was like a novelty. So they gave us a manual that said alcoholism, crusted output eating disorders. They said, Go, you know, to us beginning therapists. And so very early on, I realised that my traditional psychotherapy practise was really insufficient for dealing with people that were so complicated. And check out my first fluid, a yoga class where I got into that deep state of relaxation. If I could only get those young women to do this, then maybe they wouldn’t need their eating disorder. And that was the beginning for me of the mind-body connection. Because I used to say to them, it’s like, I hear you, but I don’t feel you. And if I don’t feel you, you’re not going to change. And so the fundamental question that I’ve used my entire really career has been what can I do that will help you change at a fundamental level because the body gets triggered before the mind gets triggered? So we could talk, talk, talk talk, but somehow or other, the talking wasn’t changing the behaviour. And so that led me to all kinds of things that are how do I get under the conscious mind because that’s where everything is laid down. And the body is a, as an amazing vehicle and instrument for us to learn how to use and be able to connect to because that’s where our information is. So when they say mind, body, it’s, it’s real. And now the neuroscience has, you know, has kind of taken away and, you know, things that the ancient gurus have known for centuries and centuries, the science is now proving it. So I’m not you know, so all the things that I, you know, kind of looked at in terms of spiritual stuff and, and I’ve names of all kinds of things EMDR and EFT, TFT, and all these techniques or strategies that get under the conscious mind we’re now coming into a synergy, really between this mind-body connection.

John Ball
Yeah, interestingly, I was reading a fascinating article, I like to read science magazines. In my spare time, I’m a bit nerdy and I like all of the new tech and scientific developments and they cover a lot, the magazine I like covers a lot of the developments of neuroscience and psychology as well. And there is investigation now more into the understanding that the brain isn’t necessarily the seat of consciousness as we have been assuming that it is for a lot of evidence now to suggest that really, it’s our whole body that the brain doesn’t carry consciousness by itself. It’s more like sort of the in and out and certainly, there are levels of it there. But it seems that our whole body

Tina Greenbaum
is it’s an amazing connection between the gut, the gut, and the brain. Right. And so there’s a nerve, it’s called the vagal nerve, the vagus nerve that goes from the brain to the gut and all the there’s a lot of things called emotional molecules. And, you know, again coming back to yoga and chakras and the centres of these energies. There’s a lot of, you know, things that connect us to different parts of the brain. So it’s fascinating stuff.

John Ball
This is an interesting area and I know that in neuroscience we’re still scratching the surface really as well. But you developed your business more into working with executives so from that sort of therapeutic side what was that path? What took you from working with people with eating disorders into working with now…

Tina Greenbaum
That’s a great question, John, because it’s been an evolution right so what I learned from these young women was really just about anything and everything that you could want to know about people because they had everything you know, depression, anxiety and stress and, and all kinds of things and so but what I learned from them, and then moving on to just many other different kinds of clients with very high functioning people, there were a lot of people that just had no skill. So we would talk about, you know, all kinds of things that are psychologically based. And you could tell me about your mother, your father, your sister, your brother, but what were you going to do when you got in front of an audience? What are you going to do if you wanted to do a podcast that we’re going to podcast where, you know, there then but a performance or you were an actor or a dancer, you were a financial person, and you have to make a presentation and all these different things, that how do I stop that, that my heart like kind of racing, or, you know, I do really well in practice, but when it comes to, you know, being in front of a judge or being in front of a, you know, my senior executive, I just kind of fall apart and all those kinds of questions over and over and over again. And at the same time, I was raising three sons and two of my sons were very competitive soccer players and one, you know, extremely talented, up to the You know, had a dream about being a professional player and went to the national level and, and so I used to say, I don’t know a lot about soccer or football, or you are. But I know a lot about psychology. And so I started studying sports psychology. And sports psychology is actually Eastern thought. So here were the merging of a lot of my interests in terms of spirituality and, and, you know, in sport, and business and, and the arts, and I lived in Washington, DC, so a lot of lawyers. And then I moved to New York and a lot of actors, dancers, performers, financial people, bank, people, all kinds of high-pressure people. Now I’m out in San Francisco, and so it’s tech and founders and, but as human beings, we all have the same issues. No matter where you are, no matter where you live, and where you are on that level of survival. We need these skills. So remember, I started out as a teacher So I really, you know, we don’t have a name us and what kind of executive coaching or this or that I’m really a teacher. And so this mastery under pressure came out of every period of my life where I’ve gone through another something, another tragedy, another event another. Once I get through it to the other side, then I can teach it. And I figured, well, if I’ve gone through it, so have you, you know, I lost my parents in a car accident when I was 42. And it’s like, not the first person in the world that has experienced this as tragic and as awful as it was. Okay, so what can I then teach, then I had cancer, so it’s like, then I love dancing, so I put it together as cancer dancer. And then my second husband is a tennis instructor and he would say to his kids, you got to go out there. You got to be aggressive. You got to be confident, so great. You just don’t have a clue how to do it. But I know how to teach him how to do it. So then we created a programme called tennis to the max where I would teach the mental side and then he would take the students on the court and put that into practice. So all these skills no matter which vertical, you know, I work with. It’s the same skills, different people need them at different levels. I start out with like, if you were to think of a continuum, anxiety is at one level, and then peak performance is the top level. And so we have to learn how to manage all those feelings to be able to perform in high-pressure situations. At a top top top level. Yeah, and then working with executives. I love working with really big minds, and creative minds and people that impact a great number of people. So as I just said, all these skills, everybody, if you’re living and breathing, people need them.

John Ball
I can relate to a great degree to that have been coaching for a long time and internationally now my client base is global. And people from different careers, different backgrounds, different countries and experiences and as different as you can possibly be. And yet, as you say, generally, the needs are the same, there are mainly the same kinds of things come up over and over again. Otherwise, I’ve been having to learn to coach again, from different country that I spoke to.

Tina Greenbaum
So from a marketing perspective, right, we say you have to have a particular you know, it’s not good marketing to say I can help everybody. Right? But the truth is, if you’re part of the human condition, right, just as in your business, you can help everybody.

John Ball
Yeah, of course, everyone can benefit from it. But yeah, like a marketing perspective, you have to focus in on who you want to help the most and, and perhaps where you’re going to have the best fit with your own style and the way you want to do Things happen. And as you know, we’re all holistic beings, we don’t just have one element of our lives that needs to work on is is always more than one thing. And nearly always they cross into each other as well. So is that when you work on improving one part of your life, it usually starts to bring up some other things as well and take things. The high level,

Tina Greenbaum
you’ve done a good bit of personal development I can hear.

John Ball
Oh, yeah, yeah, I mean, I’ve been fascinated by personal development for a long time and then moved into working in it. So probably some 15 years ago, really, and then over that time, moving into it full time. And yeah, I love it as an area and I’m not always going to stay coaching in some capacity with people. But how that looks has varied for me as well. So it’s really interesting to hear your journey from working in a school to now going on working with C suite kind of people at a high level, high performance that it makes so much sense. Sounds like a huge gaping difference. And yet, you can really see, yeah, it’s not so different. You’re still a teacher. It’s just different kinds of teaching.

Tina Greenbaum
Somebody asked me yesterday, they said, Well, you reinvented yourself. And I said, really not. I really haven’t, you know, maybe the venue and the people. But I’ve had the same mission. Because I’ve got, I went back and I looked at some of my stuff from years and years and years ago. And I think this is really helpful for people. Just in terms of what you and I are talking about, in terms of, you said it so beautifully, you know, different we’re attracted to different kinds of people based on who we are, and the skills that we have in our energies. And, and so I’ve never really veered away from this. This mission really is to I still have my mission statements to ignite people’s imagination that they too, can be something that they never thought was even possible and have it you know, kind of bringing it back to who You are as a person and your own developmental, you know, pieces and finding that fit. And then you just, you know, keep going. And it may look different people different things, but it’s the same essence of who you are.

John Ball
Yeah, I love that. And so I want to ask you about peak performance.

Tina Greenbaum
So I guess the first thing that comes to mind is the word flow, and I can never remember how to pronounce this name. McHale.

John Ball
Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi

Tina Greenbaum
Yeah, there you go. I should study at one time and really memorise it but he really, really coined that wonderful statement of that experience. When you’re in you’re just exactly kind of what we were talking about in different words, you’re in your, your flow, you’re in your element. And so there are certain things that happen in the brain. And that’s where a lot of he is a psychology. He is a psychologist and when You are doing what you have been trained to do. And that it is your you have the talent and the training. And those things come together at one time. And your performance becomes natural, it becomes something that feels almost supernatural. Yeah, that actually into the mind expands, time slows down. And there is nothing but you know, people talk about, you know, when they, if they were to see a ball that was this, you know, certain small and then it becomes bigger. And that’s all they see. So, the brain cooperates with all this practice in training that so that’s really kind of when we think about it, mostly, even from a sports performance. But when you’re a speaker, right, so we and I’m a speaker, so we talked about that time where it’s just like, oh my god, it’s over. We just started this thing. And, you know, the audience was so engaged and I was engaged and I was just feeling like that. Really, really on top of my game. And so that’s sort of that performance, but also, we just saw the other night. Tom Hanks in Greyhound, which was a submarine, you know, it was it was the fight across the Atlantic during World War Two. And he was a captain of a ship and they had 48 hours where there was no air coverage. And so they were being attacked. And just kind of watching his level of competence and quick thinking and, you know, what, at the end sort of a, you know, he turned around and his feet were all bloody because he had been standing on his feet for 48 hours and, you know, just completely connected to what was happening and, and high, high, high high but it doesn’t get much more high pressure than that, but able to keep that level of calm because the leader sets the pace for everybody else. And so when, and the thing that about really, really great leaders and peak performance is they set a tone, they set an energy they set a presence and an energy, you know, speaking, you know, in terms of energy, we, we resonate with the highest form of energy. Love is the highest form of energy. And so when we’re around people who are loving people, that energy trumps the the lower energies, and so great leaders can see things that other people can’t see more quickly. You know, they anticipate what’s happening. And, and so if we can teach groups of people, teams of people to these skills that great Olympic athletes athletes train, then why wouldn’t you have a team That was performing at a level that most others wouldn’t. So I would say that if you have two athletes that are that are it doesn’t have to be athletes. It could be two competitors in anything that have the same level of competency. But one is trained in the mental side and the other isn’t that person’s gonna win. Hands down.

John Ball
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense is the the inner game is is just as important as the outer game, right?

Tina Greenbaum
That’s right. And so I teach in the programme, I teach focus, relaxation, dealing with negative self talk, how to visualise and dealing with fear. And so those are the, that’s the curriculum. And, again, applicable to no matter what field you’re in. And the more you train, the more quickly you see these things. You know, it’s like, Oh, I get it, you know, or I’m working with you and I can I can feel your energy I can feel you’re starting to get really, really anxious. So I already tuned in to you. You know, and I might just say, just go take a break. Now I got your back, I got you covered.

John Ball
I think I think it’s interesting how attitudes often run or at least perceptions or attitudes within corporate environments and within the business world in general, men particularly, well I think women as well probably supposed to be tough. You’re supposed to be hard-nosed and things are talking about love and energy and realisation don’t often appear in those environments. So what sort of changes do you notice in the people who you work with?

Tina Greenbaum
Well, you know, it’s funny that you say that because years ago, I probably would have couched all that conversation in some other language. You know, rather than using the word energy or spiritual or this or that, my ex-husband used to say to me, don’t let anybody know what you’re doing because they’ll think you’re crazy. But I have to say that while we’re doing this, this podcasts today The Coronavirus has brought people to their knees, literally to their knees. And all of a sudden mental health. You know, I’m in. We’re talking about meditation, we’re talking about mindfulness, we’re talking about this mind-body stuff in and again, the neuroscience. God bless has really helped me tremendously because for people who are very scientific and don’t believe in any of this stuff, we have proof. We have proof. And so depending on my audience, I watch, you know, I’m careful about my language. But I also bring out just exactly what you do. You know, you might think this stuff was crazy, you know, and years ago, people might have thought that I was crazy. I have never been, I have never been, you know, somebody that lives in the clouds. And we know people like that. There are some people who start out very variable psychic and have very few practical skills. I went the other way, I’m very practical. And then through my own personal development and all the things that I’ve done in trade, my more creative side, more intuitive side has emerged. Yeah. And so as I said, I can bring this stuff down to pretty everyday language. But because we’re all human, we all have experiences. So in high-pressure situations, we all know people that make us crazy losses that that can’t handle the pressure very well or don’t know how to speak to people so that they actually will listen. Yeah, and just learning to change your phrasing around can make all the difference in the world.

John Ball
What kind of exercises might you do with someone who’s in a very high-stress position, just to have had them bring that stress level down?

Tina Greenbaum
So I started out with, and the way that my programme is designed is exactly for that exact reason. In order, we need to have a calm body in order to have a clear mind. So that when we’re very anxious or breath is very, very short and shallow. You think about hyperventilation, and people who get, you know, overexcited. So when that happens, the brain the good thinking part of the brain’s prefrontal cortex goes offline. And so, you know, our thoughts and we can’t, you know, our mind is foggy, we can’t focus really well. So I start with teaching people how to breathe, how to really calm down the nervous system. So that and it’s an exercise, this is training. Again, we’re using the I always say that if you were an Olympic level athlete, you would know To go out there to compete without training this mental side, and yet we put people into these high pressured situations. So they, they train that for a reason. And when you when you’ve done this over and over and over and over and over again, just like any other skill, it’s there for you. So it’s not it’s like yeah, yes when you’re anxious, you know, is to take a deep breath. But what would happen if you were trained your nervous system to operate at a more functional level, all the time? So this is why I’ve talked about it. So imagine that you have this level of tolerance for stress. So for anybody that’s just listening, let’s just say I had about four inches between my two hands. And so stress comes along, it hits my and they call it a window of tolerance. And in here, I can do pretty well, but as soon as it hits the top level of my window of tolerance my nervous system kicks into that stress response. And then I can’t think that clearly, in addition to all kinds of other things that happen, so, so our goal is to make this window of tolerance, maybe eight or 10 or 12 inches. So here comes stress, here comes a problem. Oh, it’s just a problem. Okay, and it takes a whole lot for my nervous system to go offline. So if we practice and absorb different kinds of breathing exercises, I started out with, you know, you breathe in for four and an app for you breathe in for four and then out for six or eight. We breathe in for four and yeah, out for 810 to 12. You do that over and over and over again. And it helps to calm down the nervous system. It also helps you to begin to learn to focus, whereas my mind Oh, I just lost. Where was I? Oh, how many weeks Okay, so let’s just start over again. Start again. And so this is the beginning of a focus, exercise, a relaxation, exercise and meditation exercise. And then we move on from there, into mindfulness. And so we start with the body and then we start with the thoughts.

John Ball
And is there a simple mindfulness or meditative exercise that audience could try out for themselves?

Tina Greenbaum
Of course, I mean, mindfulness, just to put a definition to it is being present in the moment, without judgement. So, a simple exercise would be, really simple. I just start to pay attention to what’s coming into my awareness. So if I’m doing that right now, I’m hearing some sounds from outside. I just sit with that because I just acknowledge it. Oh, I just noticed the Santa Oh, I just noticed, I’m looking at john. I just noticed the background. And it’s just a very simple mindfulness meditation. And then what happens over time you do it enough and the left side of the brain starts to calm down. Quiet stands. So again, we’re changing brainwaves from this alpha state, we’re present. We’re talking into that, you know, into that deeper Delta, you know, delta states. Like I’ve lost you, john. I don’t know where you are. No, No, I’m kidding. I’m just saying that’s kind of what happens is kind of go into that dreamy state. And now I’m in a hypnotic state. And yeah,

John Ball
okay, that makes sense. Yeah, I feel calmer just listening to it. So good. I get that. And one of the things you say with what you do as well is about integrating personal and professional lives. I think you kind of maybe touched on some of that, but what does that actually mean, what would that look like?

Tina Greenbaum
So in my experience, you cannot take a person out of their environment and expect them to be two completely different people. We, you know, men are much better compartmentalising, than women in general, just the way our brains are, are designed, but you take yourself wherever you go to John Kabat Zinn, you know, I didn’t make that up. But we do take ourselves wherever we go. So if I’m at work, all of me is really at work. And so if I don’t have a high tolerance for stress in general, and I haven’t really trained myself in these skills, I’m going to bring that person to work. Yeah. And so I have a wonderful friend who says, a business strategist. And what I love about him is the way he presents his work is this combination of the emotional self and the business self. And, you know, he’s actually working with one of my clients who’s got millions of ideas and is really, really brilliant and creative, and yet has a lot of anger underneath that hasn’t been resolved that anger, when things get really really tight, comes out just like in a tone, or just like an annoyance or and that turns people off. So that has to be dealt with. We got to deal with that anger, you know, may not be the job of the, you know, the manager. But it’s the job of the individual who wants to move forward in their lives and move up that ladder, perhaps whatever it looks like. You got to deal with the anger because it’s pouring out. And so, one of the things I talk a lot about is blind spots. We all have them. And I always say like everybody else knows your blind spot. Wouldn’t you want to know your own And so that’s this process of personal growth and development and I become more aware of how I what I put out to other people. Yeah. And so I like to say that the in my inside self and my outside self are in alignment.

John Ball
Yeah, I get that. You know, I’ve sometimes I’ve taught on my podcast about some of the people who I’ve worked with and been aware of in the past so that you can see them maybe in public life or in their presenting mode, if you like, as being high energy and really charismatic and yet in private, they’re super introverted, really hard to talk to and it seems like you You feel like you meet them to different people.

Tina Greenbaum
Yes, yes. So they have learned how to compartmentalise and allow that part of them to come out. You know, On stage or but I believe that they might be more content and have more peace of mind. If they were able to work on that side It doesn’t mean that an introvert is may ever love being an extrovert but it may mean that they can become more comfortable. And they’re not. There’s not so much stress.

John Ball
Yeah, I get that because I think I tend more naturally towards introverts and I’ve talked about this on my podcast before and, you know, I’m not an extreme introvert, but I definitely err on that side. And yet through presentations, skills, training, and a lot of personal development where I’ve moved, move the needle more towards being able to be more extrovert and be more engaged in life. It’s still probably not my natural place, but it’s becoming more natural and it gets easier, so I can have more natural conversations. On a podcast, knowing that people can be watching and listening to this from anywhere and not really worrying about that, just being in that flow state that comes with that.

Tina Greenbaum
And then when you want to relax, you’re going to go inside. You’re not going to want to go and hang out with a whole bunch of people. You have to come on podcasts all day long. And because that’s your nature, I like the way you said I move the needle. And that’s exactly what it is. You know that you can move? No, you have that, that mental agility.

John Ball
Because otherwise I’m normally the car who’s wearing the T-shirt that says, I’m sorry, I’m late, but I didn’t want to come to

Tina Greenbaum
you and my oldest son, he said, Mom, it just makes me so tired.

John Ball
But there are times when I do get very energised by those environments. That is not I don’t know if anyone really is exclusively one or the other. I think we’re all somewhere on scales of introvert and extrovert, but that can be, can be moved, but I know that there are some people who I know who have absolutely loved quarantine time and stuff recently because they’re quite happy not seeing other people and

Tina Greenbaum
I have a really good friend who said, You know, I have found the introvert in me and she’s always out there always planning always lives in New York City. She’s got her calendar. And she’s loving it. I’m just loving it. So yes, we do have these different aspects of ourselves. But what we’re also talking about in this bigger picture is really getting to know who you are. Right at a very, very deep level. There was a quote the other day that I heard from Mark Victor Hansen, who was the author of Chicken Soup for the Soul, and he and his wife wrote a new book and she said, life is created from the inside. And I just love that life is created from the inside because what happens with So many people when life gets tough, is they blame other people. You know, you know, Oh, if only he were to do this, and If only she were to do that right life would be no. It’s really from the inside if I behave differently. No, I know myself, if I put myself in these situations, you know, then my life will change. People used to say to me all the time, oh, Tina, you’re so lucky. Do you work for yourself? No, this is not luck. This is by design. Yeah. And, and many times over the years, I should have gotten myself employed. But I just, I’m unemployable. Yeah,

John Ball
yeah. I think after a time, you know, I worked as an employed person for most of my life and, and then when I made the move to becoming self-employed over time, you know, it was me. It was a bit of a tough transition. I went through some tough times. But as I said, I could have very easily given up and gone back into employment at some points. But, but over time, like myself, I would find it very hard to go into full-time employment for someone else now because I leave my own creativity, I do things my own in my own style, I can express myself in many ways through what I do professionally, in ways that I don’t believe I would be able to do. In fact, if someone else was someone else’s in charge,

Tina Greenbaum
I love collaboration. It’s not that I like to work alone all the time, because I’m an extrovert by nature. I have my introverted side, but I love people. Obviously, I’m in the people business. They fascinate me they always have. But I don’t do well. If I don’t respect somebody that’s on top. That’s my authority. So therefore

John Ball
I want to ask you a bit about your speaking about it. Humans make it because a big theme of my podcast is presentation skills and public speaking. So where did that start for you?

Tina Greenbaum
You know, it’s funny, it started, I think always as a dream. For years, I just always I found it very easy to be in front of people. And I liked it. And that’s why I like being in front of the classroom. I like doing those kinds of things. But it wasn’t until I everywhere I would go when I would listen to a really good speaker. And I would just kind of ask them frequently, many women and I said, like, you so completely tell the difference between somebody who had some level of training and because they were so natural to somebody that didn’t, and so I would just call it like 30 some years ago, like Where did you learn to do Toastmasters? No, and then I would ask another person a couple years later and then waited to speak like that, because I I really wanted that skill. And they said Toastmasters. So it was always in the back of my mind. And when I moved to New York City, which was many years ago, 15 years ago, somebody invited me to a Toastmasters club. And so I think you and I had talked about this. This was like, What is the number one, there was a kind of competition between two different clubs, but I thought mine was the number one club in the city. And it was in the law building in New York City of the Bar Association. So it’s this beautiful old building and in Midtown, and you would, and the room that we, we met was, had portraits all along the wall, and it was this long table, and people sat around and so when you got up to speak, there was an eloquence to it. There was no there was a an environment that was set. So the first meeting I went to was an alumni meeting. But somebody had invited me to. So this was this club had been existence for 40 some years. And they’ve got back people that were just unbelievable speakers, one after the other after all my god, I could never know if I could only learn to speak like that. And, and so I joined the club, and it was just my best teacher because it was a very, very high powered group. Again, I like high powered people who were very successful. And they had been they never left the club, they still never leave the club. These are people that just many people graduate and move on to other things, but it was a family. And so my greatest, you know, kind of thing that happened is they invited me to come back as alumni to speak, maybe three years later, and I still have that speech and I still go back and look at it sometimes since you’re pretty good day. And so so I learned to do I learned to be a Toastmaster. But then I was wanting to use my speaking for my business. Yeah, so that’s what I started with the tennis business and, and then I, I did a training workshop here when I first moved to California, and we had 50 some people that it was tennis, it was a tennis thing. And we had somebody had invited all these people for us basically it was their mailing list and they invited all these people. And I didn’t know that I was going to be in a gym. And I didn’t have a microphone and the way and we designed the programme that we would talk for a little bit and then my husband would take them out on the tennis court and then they were to come back and then I was going to sell them my programme. My husband took them out in the tennis court. First of all the people couldn’t hear me. Then he took them out of the tennis court and out of the 50 people I must have had about 10 that came back Because they got on the tennis court and nobody wanted to leave. So I walked away with not one sale not and it was botched from every single aspect. So I said, well, that’s great. Now I need to learn how to sell and speak. And so I started working with a very, very experienced business coach who that was what that was his main way that he, you know, kind of got clients for his business and worked with Tony Robbins had been on stage with Richard Branson and all these really great guys. So I started working with him and training how to use the skills of speaking and also engage people in wanting to take my programme. Yeah. So they’re speaking keynote speaking and then they’re speaking to sell

John Ball
What are some of the differences that you learned about speaking to sell that were important?

Tina Greenbaum
Well, the main difference thing was that you wanted your audience to know in many different ways that you had this programme. So if you and I were talking and I would say, in my programme mastering under pressure, I have this exercise, a focus exercise. And then so it’s like seeding they call seeding, seeding annuities. And I, you know, write this down, because in my programme I have blah, blah, blah, or I’m going to tell you about you. We’re going to learn I’ll talk a little bit more about this when I tell you about my programme at the end of the so just these little phrases that you just put in that it just sounds hopefully natural without being salesy. Yeah. And the truth is, you have to love what you do so much, and really believe that what you have will change people’s lives. So that you feel, you know, again in alignment With I want you to, I want to work with you, you know, I want you to buy my programme, but I want to help you. And so that’s so it’s more than just the words. It’s the energy of the way that you project that. And then the most important thing, and I that was one of the hardest things for me to sort of remember at the end. It’s called the hand-off. Right? So here’s the end of the programme. I’m loving it, you’re loving it, we’re engaged, we’re having this great thing. And then people leave. Oh my god, I didn’t get their names. Don’t know how to get in touch with them. Because once it’s over, it’s over. Yeah. And so at the very least, you have to really plan and remember what is that call to action that you’re going to ask people at the very end and so and that you have something to offer and the way you That you offer that’s a whole other thing. And it’s changed a lot because there’s a whole model, you know, in terms of like, how I’m gonna, you know, this is the price and then but today’s price is, blah, blah, blah. And if you sign up today then you know, and be able to pull that off with really not feeling that people are being pressured. And using that, so there are all these elements of sales, yeah. Sales and negotiation and that you’ve got in there that, um, that feel authentic. And because nobody likes to be sold to show

John Ball
Michael Port says but they don’t like to be sold to but they like to be invited.

Tina Greenbaum
Yes. And that’s a great way that that’s a great way of doing it. And this guy that I worked with his name is Cain Minkis makers. Cain was absolutely positively resilient. You know that he would just get people lined up, you know, how many of you want to do this? And how many are ready to make a decision and how many are not and, and then he would just and he knew exactly how many, if you had X number of people in the audience, he knew exactly how many he was going to convert. And his numbers were, he was just brilliant. Really, really. So I had a great teacher. Yeah. And then I over time, you know, I did so many talks, that I learned to develop my own style. You know, that was Cain’s style, and he was very male and very, you know, very direct and very clear and, and so on. That’s not me. I’m a woman. I sort of have a nurturing aspect to me. And also I can be very clear, so that was a huge learning experience. Yeah, and, and, and that really, you know, that combination of Toastmasters and speaking skills and, and also came taught a lot about how to how to move into the audience. You know, just put your hand on somebody’s shoulder using your body really, really well. Again, eye contact and always keeping your energy higher than your group. Yeah. Because if your energy and picking up the energy of the room and you know so and that it comes off, just like you’re just having this conversation, john, you and me.

John Ball
So it feels natural, not forced, right? Yes, we have this thing on Spanish TV. And maybe it’s in other countries as well but they on certain popular shows. Before they come back from a commercial break. You actually see some of the hosts or people in the show, having a staged conversation about a particular product or something and it’s honestly it’s the worst. Going on TV. I don’t know why they do is so cringy Yeah, I guess they must be getting them some kind of results. But just to have these celebs having these fake conversations that no one would ever have. It’s a bit crazy. But yeah, being natural in these conversations, that’s clearly what they’re going for. But it’s a big miss for me. But yeah, from from the stage, it’s from the stage. It’s really important.

Tina Greenbaum
I think what we’re talking about, and just kind of bringing all these pieces. Speaking is a skill. Yeah, I mean, it’s a huge skill. And what I learned from Toastmasters early on, I had a woman when it came to for those of your audience that are Toastmasters, and table topics, and when you spontaneously have to answer a question, and so I would get up, somebody would call my name, I’d get up and I asked the woman next to me, would you give me feedback when I’m done, and let me know how I did. So I’d sit down and she said, Tina, you know, you had your hands on The back of the chair. And remember to put your hands on your side and stand up straight. Okay, so the next week, I get called, she said, to take your hands off the back of the chair, she must have told me six times six weeks in a row to take your hand, didn’t even realise it unconsciously. Right. And so that was such a telling thing to me of the skill and, and getting into the uncommon, drilling it into the unconscious, so that it becomes natural. And that’s that whole peak about peak performance, doing something and have it create a new habit, doing something takes 30 to 40 days to build a new habit. When you do something every day, every day, every day, every day. And that’s how you’re building these neural pathways in you know, in your brain, so that when you’re speaking, you can focus only on those things that we call task-related cues. When I’m speaking, I’m worrying about the audience and my eye contact. I practice my content so much that it comes naturally to me so that I can really connect with that audience. If I haven’t done that level of practice, okay, and somebody picks up their phone, oh, god, they’re not paying attention to me. I must not be good enough up. Well, I’ve lost it. And then how quickly can I get it back? Because we have to know that we’ve lost it that we can get it back. And so that’s how all these peak performance skills come in. To speaking it’s one of my favourite topics, because speaking

John Ball
Yeah, wonderful as a speaker, and I know most of the speakers who I invite on or who I know personally as well, nearly always have some really good stories that they use in their presentations. Can you share with us one of yours?

Tina Greenbaum
Oh, sure. Right off the top of my head. It goes back to the Toastmasters in that in that club that I was in. This was early on one of my earliest speeches and they tell you to memorise your opening and memorise your closing. And then in between, you know where you’re going, but you can add live it. It doesn’t have to be exactly right? And that’s what I did. So I memorised my opening, I memorise my closing. But the night before, wasn’t so crazy about the opening. And so I changed it. You can stake my unconscious, it already learned the first one. And you know, I got in there and in this beautiful room and you’re introduced and somebody introduces me and I stand behind this podium and I’m looking at this big long brown table and all these people and the porches on the side and I get up there and I and I go, madam Toastmaster never and then I went completely blank like nothing absolutely positively nothing. And I said I think I’m going to start again. And I did know. And it took me a moment and I started again and then it started to come back to me. Well, that was fine in an audience like that because it was a friendly audience. So I was a student so to speak, but if I were getting paid five or $10,000 for that speech, I don’t think he would have been too happy with me going Ladies and gentlemen, just got to start again. So what I learned was don’t change your opening the night before. You know, work on it, work on it, work on it, once it once you’ve practised it, go with it, because I can’t be worrying about am I going to remember it or not? Because I don’t have space for that I have to be looking at my audience. So that was number one. And number two is using a pause. You can just pause for a moment. Look around, smile. And trust that that material will come back if you have practised it enough. And each one of us I think needs to know how your brain works, how your mind works. I know how I practice, you know, for something that’s a really big thing, I will. First I might write it out, but I’ll outline it, and I’ll put it into bullet points. And then I’ll make the bullet points shorter and shorter. And then I’ll put it, I’ll type it, I’ll put it on my TV. I’ll tape it on the TV. And I’ll start and I’ll talk and then I’ll see how far I can get. And then it’s, it’s, I think, a bit like musical phrases. If you’ve ever been played music or sang in the chorus, right, you’ve got one phrase, and then you’ve got another phrase and then you have a connector note. And those connectors are the really the most important thing I think in speaking that you can get from one concept to the next concept. with grace, that it turned into fillers and all that stuff. So I’ll practice one thing and then I’ll get, oh, how am I going to get from here to here? And then I’ll practice it again, I’ll bring in, you know until I get through the whole speech. So that actually when I’m speaking, and if I get lost, I can visualise that piece of paper on my TV. And I can, I can sort of know where I’m at. And it’ll, it’ll come back to me.

John Ball
So one of the things I keep promising to do is an episode on my podcast about memory techniques for public speaking. Yeah, this is a good way to help with that. So yes, very nicely to that maybe for next week’s episode. Yeah, great stuff as a speaker, I think for my audience, and for me personally, how did you start to get paid for speaking How did you move into paid speaker work?

Tina Greenbaum
So, there’s a thing about again, because I’ve been so involved in speaking and speaking in sales and using what let me put it differently using speaking as a way to generate leads. Right? So that became very much a part of, if anybody is in business if you’re in business, you have to have a way of generating leads. And I think the most important thing is and somebody said that I thought this was brilliant. pick three things that you’re willing to do and that you enjoy in order for your marketing and sales. So speaking has been very big for me, networking has been very big for me. And so I have an online presence now that I’m paying somebody to help me do because I don’t enjoy it. I don’t enjoy sitting in front of the computer all day long, even though that’s what we’re doing. Now. Okay, then God bless that we can but You know, having my druthers, I’d rather see you in person. So getting out there a lot, you know, and then people inviting you to speak and doing a lot of speaks speeches for free. But if you’re going to do them for free, that it has to connect, that this is the audience that I want to speak to somebody invited me to speak just the other day and then she’s telling and then she says, but there’s a caveat. You know, I really, I asked my speakers to sell five tickets for the summit. So now I’m not now not only am I not speaking for free, yeah, you know, I’m speaking for free but I’m now paying to pay to speak. Yeah. If it were an audience that was my audience, I might have considered it but it was not worth it. hundred dollar investment for me. Yeah. So now coming back to how do you get paid to speak it’s, it’s, you know, it’s marketing, it’s sales, it’s getting people its credibility, more than anything that people need to know that you have something to share. And that now again, we’re in a whole different set of times right now, with with the virus and I think most speakers are speaking or not getting paid for speaking right now. You know, this is an organisation that I belong to and the guy is a, you know, one of these Master Master speakers, he booked just booked something for January, which maybe he’ll get to speak, live, but you start to have guidelines for yourself. And, and, you know, once somebody’s willing to pay you, then the next person And maybe willing to pay you. And but I’ve had to I’ve, it’s not even so much had to like, I’ll give you an example. I was just invited to speak, to give a class like an hour talk on to a group of talented entertainers, models and performers. So it’s an agency that that has a group of people that they are training in the business of their art. They’re all artists in some way. And so they brought me in to do an hour presentation to this group about performance and anxiety and stress and so on. And so I did that for free. Then they invited me to do a six-week class, which now they’re paying me for. So actually, today’s the last day of the six weeks and then I got a really good review. I love them. They love me. It was So now I just, the owner just contacted me again, he said, I’m working on something really big. I want my assistant to make an appointment with you. So that will hopefully turn into something that’s even bigger. Yeah. So I think it’s being really clear about who your audiences number one, you know, what the market is doing right now. And, and to be, I think the most important thing is to be seen, to be seen, to be heard to make these podcasts, you know, and, and, and do something with them so that people can listen, you’re going to put it out, I’m going to put it out. We’re going to take excerpts of it. We’re going to take pieces and then and then give it back to you and then you’ll get more and so the way that the environment is right now is we’re all helping each other and we’re giving back and so I don’t know what it’s going to look like, yeah. year from now or six months from now, but so I’m using again, my speaking as my lead generator.

John Ball
Yeah. Makes a lot of sense and different times I think I’ve been speaking to some people were more in the behind the scenes I guess use that speaker management speaker agents kind of style people and things that they say like, yeah, I mean that there is work and there is black virtual some virtual opportunities, but you can’t just go and deliver your usual keynote. It’s not gonna work. So you’re going to have to adapt to what you’re offering if you’re going to go down that path at all. And so yeah,

Tina Greenbaum
so I’m very involved in a group. It’s called the C suite network. And it’s an advisor to the network to the C suite. So that’s so there’s a lot of coaches and consultants that that and we talk all the time about metaphysics as a call Coming up in, you know, in a little bit about content is king. Right. And using your content, you know, my book, you know this master under pressure the book, The speaking the blogs the vlogs. It’s an enormous undertaking. And I think I think that’s the other thing of being realistic about how much energy you have and what you’re willing to put in and how many resources you can put together. Somebody I’m going to do another podcast and somebody is entrepreneurship for small businesses. So I’ve been slugging at this for a long time. And so I’m coming at it now from much more experienced much more knowledge. And what I’ve learned john is really as somebody said to me that the difference between a sole proprietor and a founder is a founder has a team a sole proprietor works by themselves. Hmm. I’ve been a sole proprietor for my whole entire career. And so scaling out my business, being a sole proprietor, it is easy, in a way in comparison to what I’m trying to do now, what I am doing now, what I’ve invested in, is to because I’m just one person, and I want to make a really, really big impact because I think what I teach is something that we talked about earlier that everybody can use and that can change the world.

John Ball
Yeah. So this is the next part of your evolution.

Tina Greenbaum
That’s right. That’s right. It’s

John Ball
exciting times.

Tina Greenbaum
And it’s fine. It’s still fun.

John Ball
Well, that always helps. I really enjoy what you’re doing. I think even if I didn’t enjoy doing this podcasting, it wouldn’t be happening you know, I have a lot of fun doing it and still work working hard on building up the listenership, but it’s is Work in Progress, I’ve already been told it generally takes about two years to build up to the kind of listenership you want. So it means just got to stick with it and check your stats and keep doing

Tina Greenbaum
and that’s, I think that that is the key. You know, it’s working harder, not smarter, it’s working smarter rather than harder. But you have to have you have to be persistent. I like never give up. It’s like for me, it’s like not even an option. There time many times I think really? really did you know, but um, I think I’m doing what I’ve just I was designed to do.

John Ball
Yeah, we nearly all have those times where we want to quit and you know, generally, the only thing we really learn about ourselves is if we do that is that we’re quitters. That doesn’t really help and yeah, I think as well. We also have that tendency to To think never things never move as fast as you want them to move, right. So that’s exactly right. nearly always going to take you longer than you think. And I think I think it’s p bodies rule or something like that. Even when you take into consideration that things take longer than you think they take longer than you think. And that’s just one of those things. I work with our clients a long time saying, Be persistent, keep with us, keep taking action, keep moving. It takes time to get the results that you want to get but keep learning from people keep increasing your network and keep doing all the things that are going to help you grow you will get there but this period overlap and look at it like the stages from in, in the word unconscious and competence through to conscious competence, the conscious or unconscious competence. The conscious competence stage was like, Well, you know what you’re doing but you have to really think about it. You’re not in that flow state, yet. You’re not in that mastery state. And that’s the longest part of all of it. So you move from not knowing what you’re doing to knowing what you’re doing and learning it. But whilst you’re mastering the basics and all of that, it takes the longest time. But only those who stick with it get through to that level of unconscious competence, where you don’t really have to think about it. Sometimes that process can be really quick. I think learning to drive that probably the process my unconscious competence is fairly fast, usually there. But in other areas I’m business is not it takes a lot longer.

Tina Greenbaum
It takes a long time. And I always say because I started over so many times, and I started you know, the shortest. Doing my private practice. I started five private practices. from scratch, I would move to a new city, I didn’t know a soul and I just start from nothing. So the shortest time was seven months, and the longest was a year and a half. But it was a very finite thing that I was doing. It must be you know, the internet was not involved very much or it was Just as a referral source and so that was, as I said, not it wasn’t complicated. It wasn’t easy, but it wasn’t complicated. scaling your business is complicated. Because there are so many moving parts that have to be working in concert, you know, and a wonderful thing that one of my friends said, it’s not your genius, it’s not your job. And there are so many things in business that are not my genius that I had to you know, and that’s where I lost a lot of money. I invested in people that really I shouldn’t have, you know, I thought at the time it wasn’t. And so all those learning curves and expenses and but now I now get into this unconscious consciousness, you know, competency, I see it, and I can see it. And so like, No, I’m not really your audience is not my audience. And that’s not where I’m going to put my money. And then I have Team now I don’t make any financial decisions without the team really supporting me that this is a really good choice so helping me with my blind spots things that I can’t see things that I don’t know. And that takes a lot of vulnerability because a lot of people are like I can do this myself and I know really

John Ball
yeah it’s absolutely true and I coach a lot of clients with businesses and these conversations we often end up having and saying I really your goal as a business owner should be to be your business can work without you and as wives I’ve particularly loved by working with tools from people like Mike Michalowicz and, and got to actually have a chat with him a little while ago as well. We know he has a whole thing about the clockwork system of taking yourself out to your business. I know. T Harv Eker. Who I’ve worked with for a long time. Yeah, what I do For for her for the last 10 years or so. And one of the things that he was is is like if you’re working in your business and not on your business, you have a job, you don’t have a business, you have a job. And I mean, this is absolutely right. Get rid of everything that isn’t your expertise, everything that isn’t your joy as well in your business, and pass that on and only do the stuff you absolutely have to do yourself. And yeah, it’s really sound, really sound business advice, but it’s a process.

Tina Greenbaum
It is a process and you cannot make it go any faster than it’s going to go. There’s too many things is just but it’s fun.

John Ball
Yeah, absolutely. This is a been a real delight speaking to you and I want to start bringing things to a close for us today. I do always like to ask my guests First of all, where they can find out more about you where they can find out more than mastery under pressure.

Tina Greenbaum
Absolutely. So you can write to be Tina@masteryunderpressure.com you can find my book on Amazon it’s mastery under everything is mastery under pressure you just type it in and you’ll find me and my website is masteryunderpressure.com

John Ball
perfect wonderful now I always like to ask my guests for a book recommendation now you have your own burger master under pressure which people should definitely check out I know I will be what book someone says to you Hey Tina what’s a good book? What sir What would you

Tina Greenbaum
know I know when you asked me I this is the one that I love.

John Ball
All right now I’ve not read this one I’ve not had this recommended before the road less stupid. Who’s that by?

Unknown Speaker
Keith Cunningham and actually he’s a buddy of T.Harv Eker’s. That’s how I met him.

John Ball
Oh, yeah. How often keep night together pretty well.

Tina Greenbaum
And this is just a wonderful, in your face. book. It’s about business. But again, you can’t take the person out of the business. And he’s just got a wonderful way of using his own mistakes. He’s made and again, I did years and years of Harv Eker training. So I’ve heard many, many, many of those stories and I don’t think he had one person on there who was ever a millionaire that didn’t go bankrupt at some time, and then build themselves back up again and, and so keep coming in uses a lot of his own experiences and it’s just very sound very clear advice for business owners a lot of the things that we’ve been talking about and from a sole proprietor, you know, one person business to a multi-million dollar business, the elements of business are the same. Yeah. And it’s the same thing in personal development. You know, no matter where you are on that scale, you know, a whole person that’s working really well there are certain things that are working really well that you have learned these skills and we work so I love the comment. I really do love the combination of the individual in the business. Yeah, making a difference.

John Ball
Yeah. Okay, that’s going on my reading list here, on my wish list at least. And to wrap things up for today you shared lots of great insights, knowledge information with us. Really appreciate you for that. What are some closing thoughts that you would like to leave for our audience?

Tina Greenbaum
So people ask me this all the time if I were going to bring things down into one sentence or one idea when you’re feeling pushed, or pressed or pressured or the question I always ask myself is what’s in my control? What’s out of my control? It’s the number one question that very quickly brings everything into focus. And, and I get to know what I can control. Okay? So if I have some peace in this, I can, even if I can’t control the behaviour, I can’t control the virus. I can’t control any of these external things that I can control my attitude. I control the way I think about it. Where I put my attention that I can control? And so that’s, I think, a foundational question that people start to use that their lives can just switch, you switch one thing, and then the whole quantum field changes.

John Ball
Yeah, I use that principle in my own life a lot. I think there’s a lot some lovely thoughts to finish up on today. Tina, we’re going to have all the information on how people can find out more about you and your programme and your book in the show notes as well. And really wanted to thank you. It’s been a delight to speak to you today. You’ve been a wonderful guest on the show. And I know that we’ll stay in touch from this as well. I really appreciate everything you shared with us today and will your time as well. Thank you, Tina.

Tina Greenbaum
Thank you.

John Ball
Thanks for tuning in. I hope you’ve enjoyed the show. If you did, please make sure you like and subscribe to get updates of future episodes as well. I have an amazing episode coming up with the amazing Dr Joanna Martin. She is a public speaking expert and she also now focuses her work in leadership for women. She has an incredible business going called one of many, and we had an amazing conversation so don’t miss that. Many other amazing guests coming up including more in the series of comedy and humour with professional comedians coming up too, so please make sure you are subscribed to the show for those shows. If you have any feedback for us, or if you think you’d make a great guest or you’d like to hear someone particularly on the show, then get in touch, john@presentinfluence.com by email, or leave us a comment. We’d love to hear from you. See you next time.

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